pbpacers Forum Index pbpacers
Hosted by freeforums.org
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups    RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Welcome
Welcome to pbpacers.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!

Multisport
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    pbpacers Forum Index -> Running
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
schatfield



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:39 am    Post subject: Multisport Reply with quote

I am creating this topic for those on the list who participate, plan to participate or would like to participate in multisport events. I'm thinking about triathlons and duathlons primarily although there are other things as well (the 'yak-a-du' at the coast; cyclocross racing; Xterra, etc.) I know that there are a couple of people who will be attempting (and I expect completing) their first "Ironman" (R) race next year so perhaps they will share some of their thoughts and experiences.

sheryl c.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
schatfield



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:16 am    Post subject: Bike Upgrades and Winter Training Reply with quote

I am looking at making some bike modifications before next season. Some of you who know me are aware that I raced this season on a 'time trial' bike that I built up myself on a 2001 Schwinn Factory homegrown aluminum (made in USA) frame. This frame pre-dates the changes in Schwinn's ownership that made the reputation of some of their bikes suspect during the past few years.
(Although the current year's Peloton Pro Ltd, in full carbon, which lists for about $3999 appears to me to be a fine bike which I would happily ride.)

My racing bike is equipped with Ultegra 9 speed components (bought new after 10 speed came out so I got them dirt cheap, I have ridden an 11-23 cassette for several years now so I don't know if I'd get that much out of a 10 speed anyway); Profile Design T2 wing aluminum base bar and extensions, a 'no name' carbon fork, Neuvation C38C carbon clincher wheels (I have it on good authority that they are the same rim as Zipps), and a custom frame/fork paint job by Jack Kane of Kane Racing bicycles. I also have cheap (Performance Bike Forte brand) wheels to train on. (I have it on less good authority that the Performance Titan wheels are actually the same as low end Neuvation wheels.)

What I am considering is changing to the Oval Concepts JetStream Fork (A900 or R900). I had already seen an Oval promo video about how aerodynamic this fork is (has a 'slit' in the middle) but when Lennard Zinn wrote about it on the Velo News website I was much more persuaded. We found one new but slightly scratched on ebay for about half the list price (list is something outrageous like $499) so I am awaiting it to see how it looks (husband already has a bunch of Oval parts - bar, stem and extensions - on his racing bike so he wants one of these forks, too; looks like the one that is coming will be his). The one we are getting is the R900 - road model. It is shaped (curved) like a road fork rather than flat bladed as the A900 - time trial model. Interestingly, the R900 weighs about 50 grams less. One of the downsides of this fork change is that my no name fork also has a custom paint job that matches the frame so I will lose something aesthetically (neon green flames) if/when I make this change.

The other thing I'm thinking about is going to ceramic bearings in my wheels. This is pretty costly in my opinion ($180 including tool) so I am less likely to do this. I don't know if anyone has experience or opinions about this but I am interested. Ironically if I had waited to buy the wheels, Neuvation now offers the ceremic upgrade for only about $60 if you buy them at the same time as the wheels. I have been very, very happy with these wheels, by the way. I wasn't ready to go to tubulars (I have no experience whatsoever) so my carbon choices were limited. These are semi deep (38 cm) rims with an aluminum braking surface (so no need for special pads; no need to change pads when I alternate racing and training wheels). They are light, responsive and do allow me to push the hard gears with relative ease.

Over the fall and winter, I plan to ride my cyclocross ("off road" road bike) quite a bit and maybe finally master the art of mounting/dismounting and carrying the bike as one would need to do to compete in this discipline. The horse trail from Eply to Sumrall has been pretty good riding, especially when there is a little mud - parts of it are hard going when it is completely dry. I have only crashed twice so that is encouraging for a person like me with almost no off road experience.

I'm still getting in a couple of decent rides on my road bike (just put on cyclometer with cadence so I can get back to focusing on that and away from 'mashing') but I plan to dissemble it in a month or two to ship it off for a badly needed frame paint job (lots of scratches from transport on a car bike rack), then replace the drivetrain (9 speed Shimano Dura Ace) with Campy components that I hope to piece together in a cost efficient way. If I don't end up doing that, I will at least replace some of the Dura Ace (bottom bracket has never been serviced; needs new cables/housing) and maybe I will look to upgrade from 9 to 10 speed.

We have one singlespeed bike and are looking to either build up or buy another for winter riding. I'd like to keep up one longish ride per week (60 miles or so) but once it gets cold I know it will be a struggle for me and I sure won't be going fast. I didn't miss a single week of outside riding last winter but I had some short, miserable, slow outside rides. We have one bike set up on a fluid trainer inside so that it an option but I sure hate doing more than 1-2 trainer workouts in a given week.

My goals for next year are fuzzy (I may be doing an internship somewhere else over the summer, or may move during summer or fall, a lot of stuff is still up in the air right now) but I am definitely planning on Powerman Alabama Duathlon in April (12th I think). There are two races in fact, the full (8k/53K/8K) and a shorter one - 2.7 mi/17.2 mi/ 2.7 mi - so something
for those of you who are into this sort of thing to start thinking about now.
I personally find the second run so hard that it reminds me why I like triathlons better even though I am still working hard to get to the 'middle of the pack' with my swimming.

sheryl c.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
schatfield



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject: Fall Duathlons Reply with quote

Spring and fall are when you find duathlons in the midwest where I started to race. Actually, most of the sprint triathlons also incorporated a duathlon option concurrent with the tris - a custom that I don't observe around here.

At any rate, I did a quick search for duathlons in Miss since the ones I am aware of are in spring to summer. I found the Cotton Gin Festival sprint Duathlon in Noxapater, MS on Saturday, September 29th at 8 a.m. Adult course is 2m/16.4 bike/2m run, and there is also a kids option (at 7 a.m.): 1/2 mi run/3 mi bike/ 1/2 mi run. Terrain is said to be rolling. I don't know anything else about this event and doubt that it will fit into my plans this fall but maybe some other Pacers would like to get in one last duathlon this season.
sheyrl c.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
schatfield



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:59 pm    Post subject: Cyclocrossing Reply with quote

Cyclocross for anyone not familiar with the sport is a sort of 'off road' road biking. Races are structured to be multiple laps around a circuit course, usually with a variety of terrain. It is pretty much a given that riders will at some point have to dismount and run or jump hurdles with their bikes - which is why I consider this a multisport event. It works best in cool and slightly muddy conditions and is generally a fall/spring/winter sport (I think of the 'r' months as the cyclocross months although the pro season actually ends in January). This is something I've always wanted to participate in but haven't yet. There are races in some of the nearby states but none in Mississippi that I'm aware of. But I have a long way to go to develop technique before I'd even try a beginner level race.

I spent an hour today practicing cyclocross dismounts - upclipping my right foot and pulling it over to the left side of the bike and down to the ground and quickly (almost simultaneously) unclipping the left foot to smoothly transition to running with the bike. I watched a great video clip on Velonews.com (see velonews tv - how to - cyclocross clinics) that helped me more than seeing riders do this in races because the actions were broken down and slowed down. So far I can only comfortably pull my right foot behind and to the outside of my left leg and down; a more aggressive technique is to pull your right leg inside and in front of your (still clipped into the pedal) left leg. I only tried this alternate way about twice and found the left unclipping more awkward with my right foot in front.

I'll work on mounts another day and carrying the bike after that - I am taking this one step at a time. It was really fun to work on something completely new and different. I do so many of the same things over and over, working on technique or speed or distance, that it is a great feeling to find some achievement in just getting through this basic first step. I was going pretty slow and I know that I don't have any fluidity to my motion yet (look at some of the cyclocross video clips on Youtube to see it done well) but I set out to do 100 dismounts today and I got through it, plus another 10 at the foot of a slight incline (so I could practice running and rolling the bike uphill).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Raul



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I envy you Sheryl! if I tried to do the cyclocross dismounts, I would for sure break my....... back and teeth!! Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
schatfield



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:44 am    Post subject: Crash! Reply with quote

As Scott Tinley (many time Ironman triathlete winner and participant; author of multiple training books) said, "There are two kinds of cyclists - those who have crashed and those who are going to crash."

After an uneventful ride on the horse trail going from Eply to Sumrall on Sunday, followed by a 6 1/2 mile or so run (mostly on the same trail), I was feeling confident on the ride back so started to accelerate on one of the flatter stretches. My front tire struck and couldn't clear a thick root - not particularly visible due to dry dusty conditions, so I went over the front of the bike. That past probably wasn't as bad as the 'flip' the bike followed with which resulted in it bonking me on the head (helmet). A quick inventory showed that I was sore on the side of the face (helmet and glasses scraped down when the bike hit me), strained a little in the right thumb and left pinkie and, worst of all, feeling a lot of achiness in my left shoulder. The bike showed a profound wobble in the front wheel accompanied by brake pad rubbing, the left brake/shifter lever was askew but no other apparent damage. I managed to correct most of the brake rub and the wobble seemed less bad as time went by. I finished the stretch on the horse trail to Eply, took another look at the bike, and rode back on the paved portion of the trace at a pretty fair speed. In case anyone wonders whether the pedals will unclip when you crash- these were Crank Brothers EggBeaters (IMO the best off road pedal period) and they certainly did so immediately.

I blame too much air pressure - I should be riding off road at 60 psi or less but since I use the paved Trace to get to Eply, I like to compromise with 70 psi (use 80 in these knobby cyclocross tires when I'm not going off road at all) to give me a little smoother/faster ride. Don was running with 50 psi and it was probably far safer.

Yoga has been out so far this week but I have been fine in the pool and the shoulder doesn't matter all that much for biking or running. I was most worried that I would end up with a black eye (didn't) and have to explain that away. Looking at the various cyclocross videos, crashes aren't all that uncommon although they usually seem to come from muddy, slippery conditions and not stuff like this (but many actual cyclocross courses are created and are less 'rugged' than a lot of real mountain biking). One of the pluses in cyclocross racing is that it is a tradition to do a test ride of the course before the race although that doesn't help so much when conditions on the circuit change from repeat numbers of passes by the racers.

Anyway, this is: 1)why I wear a helmet, and; 2)why I stay away from most off road riding when I have races on my calender. I think it would have made a pretty cool video for YouTube; may have to get a helmet cam one of these days....

sheryl c.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dawn



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 385
Location: Hattiesburg

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i had heard about your crash! I'm happy to hear no major damage was done to you. Get well soon!

_________________
Run! For your life.
Dawn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Ginny



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 402

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to hear you were able to get up and continue, and hopefully, do not have any long lasting injuries. At least you were on a bike and on trails, I fell a few years ago will jogging down a hill, how embarrassing. I was on one of the repaved roads where they glue the loose rocks to the road. I hit one of the rocks that was sticking up, and fell to the ground. Your experience sounds so much "cooler" (for lack of a better word), than me spazzing out while jogging. Glad your ok.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
schatfield



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had my share of not cool running accidents as well. One time I fell on a sidewalk (it DID have some cracks in it) on a neighborhood street - plenty of witnesses. I was so embarrassed that I got up and got going right away - but had some 'sidewalk burns' that really hurt for days afterward. I also had a nasty sideways bike wreck in Idaho on an icy parking lot (to my apartment) that left me really bruised on one side of my body for a couple of weeks. But there is something about going over the front end that seems more, I don't know, maybe 'dramatic' or 'exciting.' Of course now I have had my share of 'drama' for this year....
sheryl c.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
action jackson



Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 365
Location: somewhere in the piney woods of sumrall, ms

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OUCH!! I hope you have a fast recovery!! Like everyone else, my embarrassing fall consisted of forgetting that I had clip in shoes on my bike!! I stopped and just slowly fell to the ground on my side. Luckily, only one person driving by saw me, he did slow down, thank God he didn't stop. Maybe we can start a "most embarrasing fall" blog. At least Sheryl's fall was because of an athletic moment, and not a dementia moment.

_________________
Catch you on the run!! Audrey
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ryderruns



Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 733

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Where's Sheryl Reply with quote

Sheryl---where are you? Give us a medical update.

_________________
Becky Ryder
hryder29@comcast.net
Hattiesburg, MS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
schatfield



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:50 pm    Post subject: Update on the stuff that was hurt Reply with quote

I still have a little achiness in my left shoulder, right thumb and left pinkie. I missed one week of Yoga (could not put weight on my arm) but nothing else of consequence. While I had some crappy speed work miles this Tuesday and I'd like to blame them on some injury, I can't. The finger/thumb issues are rather bad on longer bike rides but no worse than some of the other stuff that usually happens on longer bike rides, like saddle discomfort.

Sadly, the prognosis is not quite so positive on my bike (yet) due to my own stubbornness and determination to do something I know nothing about which is work on wheels. I replaced one spoke, losing the nipple (thing that is on the end of the spoke and keeps is secured to the rim) inside the wheel's rim in the process. If you can imagine this - it is rolling around inside the rim and there is a small (very) hole where the removed spoke was through which you can try to somehow remove the nipple - once you somehow trap it. All of the helpful information on the Internet said things like "don't lose the nipple inside of the rim."

I managed to 'invent' a method to retrieve the nipple - using cardboard and a toothpick. Then I 'rounded out' another nipple while trying to true the wheel (had a definite wobble). A spoke wrench doesn't work on a rounded out nipple because there are no edges to grab onto to loosen/ tighten, so I decided to replace it. (All of the helpful information on the Internet said things like "don't let the spoke nipple get rounded out.")
This resulted in another lost nipple, and another difficult retrieval. (If this ever happens to anyone let me know I may be an expert at this now!) After all of this spoke work I tried (some) to 'true' (make round without wobbling) the wheel. After walking past it for some days, sitting on my (cheap, well, inexpensive anyway) truing stand, then spinning it to see that the wobble was still there, I finally took the wheel across the street to Hattiesburg Bicycle where I was pleased to find out that it is seems to be merely out of true and not something worse (bent rim, etc.) I should have it back shortly and again be a menace (to myself) on the horse trail!

Working on wheels does not seem to be something I can yet handle. I have always had some fantasy that I would build some bicycle wheels at some point; maybe after I have done this a time or two I will: a)be more comfortable working on wheels; or b)completely give up on the idea.

Otherwise I believe the bike is fine although I have decided that it is too heavy for cyclocross (too heavy for me to carry) so I am going to move all of the parts over to a lighter frame and rebuild this frame as a singlespeed (one chainring and one cog in the back). I will do this work "sometime in the future" (Xmas break? Spring break?). That way, if/when I do crash again and if/when the bike lands on me, it will be less lbs of weight on my head.

In other injury updates, I was struck by a falling (or thrown) toy at Thames Elementary yesterday (graduate assistant work with ACCESS Recreation) and have a little facial soreness from that. Again it shouldn't impact my ability to bike/run/swim although you never know, may cause enough goggle/sunglasses discomfort to throw off my pace.

sheryl c.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
schatfield



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject: Neuvation Wheels Reply with quote

I still could see a little 'wobble' in my front cyclocross wheel (due to my own carelessness when I tried to work on it) so I contacted Neuvation Wheels which is in fact essentially one person called John Neugent. I asked about a replacement rim and he instead offered to sell me a rebuilt wheel for a great price ($50). Of course I took him up on this and want to give a plug for Neuvation wheels.

We have 5 sets - two of the M28 Aeros (heavy but with bladed spokes); 2 of the R28s (racing wheels) and 1 set of C 38 C (carbon clinches with a 38 mm rim). I had my best ever triathlon/duathlon season for bike speed riding on these carbon wheels. They are smooth (I hesitate to use the cliche phrases like "stiff yet responsive") and I found it much easier to push larger gears due to the quality of the ride (also should mention that I use Vredstein Fortezza tires - I think that Vredstein's - handmade in Holland - are the best!)

Pricing, quality and customer service from Neuvationhas been excellent. If you are interested in upgrading to carbon, check out:

http://www.neuvationcycling.com/parts_promos/specials/webspecials.html

as the C48 (48 mm rims) in either tubular or clincher (tires that use tubes) are shown on sale as they have been discontinued - they are cheaper now than the C38s are. Note that the C 48 C clinchers will require valve extenders (which are included) or a really long valve on the tube (a 60 mm won't work for the 48s) which is one of the reasons I opted for the 38s (I don't like using valve extenders). I have it on good authority that the rims are the same as are used by one of the very well known makers of wheels favored by many triathletes. Despite the lower price, there isn't any skimping on the spoke or hub quality (the spokes on the carbon wheels are about the most expensive ones made). You can see the whole current inventory at:

http://www.neuvationcycling.com/buy/store.html

These prices include shipping, which from many sources is pretty steep for wheels due to their size.

Disclaimer - I am not affiliated with or getting anything out of this shameless plug. There are other reviews on the web for Neuvation wheels and I encourage anyone who is interested to look at those as well - I think that the universal opinion is that they are high quality wheels at a very attractive price.

sheryl c.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
schatfield



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:47 am    Post subject: More on Wheels Reply with quote

Following up to my prior post, I feel the urge to rant a little bit about wheels.

I know that there are some riders around here who have great wheels; I've seen many of them. But for a lot of people, especially those who are new to biking and/or triathlon (myself included when I was starting out) the wheels are really an overlooked part of the bike. It was sheer luck that my first 'good' road bike came with Velomax (now Easton) Circuits which, despite being the low end of the line, are very good wheels. A lot of people get really wrapped up in frame quality and material (carbon), other parts (carbon bars, stems and seatposts); and weight savings in grams but don't, in my opinion, pay enough attention to the wheels. IMO, this is not an area that should be compromised to keep the bike price lower, especially if you want to ride competitively. I'd opt to go down a level on the drivetrain (Ultegra vs. Dura Ace) rather than skimp on wheels. Of course I can say that since that is what I actually did when I built the bike I race on!

How much you should put into wheels is another matter. I have never used tubulars - but most of the best deepest rimmed wheels are tubular; disc wheels are also tubular. Carbon rims have the added complication of requiring a special more expensive brake pad (my carbon clinchers have an aluminum braking surface). If you have one bike for racing and training I would recommend having good wheels to race on and other ones for most of your training; you have to consider if you want to change brake pads before races if you are going from carbon to non-carbon rims. (If you are lucky enough to have two bikes and keep one primarily for racing, then this isn't necessarily a concern.) A mid-priced fairly aero (deep) rimmed non carbon wheel (like some of the Eastons or the Neuvation R series, even the Neuvation M 28 aeros are better than a lot of the wheels that come on bikes) may be the best choice for a lot of people. There are lots of good wheels out there I haven't mentioned - Zipps (remember my previous post when I suggested that Neuvation rims are the same as another well-known brand); Mavic; Hed (the 3 spoke model you see being ridden in triathlons all of the time comes in carbon or aluminum); Ritchey; and Shimano and Campy both have branded wheelsets - and many, many more good brands than I could mention. Bontrager (Trek) has some good wheels but you aren't necessarily going to get them on your Trek unless you buy a higher end bike.

Like frames, I'm sure that many of the rims and hubs are made in one of a few Asian factories, so I'd look to reviews and whatever other information you can get - good companies will want to put their name on high quality wheels but it doesn't mean that some of the 'no name' wheels aren't pretty good too. A basic over simplification is that deeper rims will be better ("faster") wheels. However, deeper and deeper rims (and disc wheels) may be more susceptible to cross winds - which isn't an overriding concern in south Mississippi.

I am always concerned about fixing flats, even during races - which is one reason I have steered clear of tubulars. I was surprised to see a SAG vehicle during the half iron race I did in August - maybe this is a fixture of big races including the Ironman races (????). If so maybe it is less important than I think. I am used to small local level races where you essentially provide your own support so I am generally prepared to do so. One thing I do know, however, is that the tires are a bear to get on and off my carbon wheels so I have been lucky to not have any issues with them (so far). Unless you have good friends and family members who are one quick cell call away, or a riding buddy who will race back and get the car, I generally would say don't ride on it if you can't repair it. There may be unexpected things that happen (trashing a rim) but they are far less likely than flats.

Another thing to keep in mind is that many, many wheels are rated for rider lbs. Most pro bike riders are very small - other than the sprinters, a lot of them are far lighter than the average person. It is worthwhile looking for the weight information while shopping for wheels because it does present safety issues but sometimes not until you get in a wreck. Easton specifies which wheels are best for which size of rider; I'm sure that many other brands do, too.

Well, end of rant on wheels - I need to get out and ride before the day gets any older....

sheryl c.


Last edited by schatfield on Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
schatfield



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:28 am    Post subject: Powerman Duathlon Reply with quote

Registration is open for the Powerman Duathlon near Birmingham, Alabama. There are actually three races - the "Powerkids Duathlon" on 12 April, (distances vary by age); the WhistleStop Duathlon on 13 April (4k run/27.5k bike/ 4k run) and the Powerman Duathlon, also on 13 April (8k/53k/8k). Although Powerman is no longer an automatic qualifier for the Duathlon age group world's (this year I believe in to be held in Rimini, Italy), it is still a well-known race and something I have wanted to participate in while I'm living in the general area (this may be my last year in H'burg) so I have signed up. Don is planning to do the Whistlestop as he still considers himself a less than serious runner.

See http://team-magic.rd20.com/ for registration. Powerman is $75 and the Whistlestop is $45 (rates assume USAT membership; probably add about $10 if you are not), plus there are relay options for either in case some of you non cyclists want to team up with non runners. For a warm up, I'd highly recommend the Meridian Sunfish Duathlon which is usually scheduled at the end of March or the beginning of April. I participated in this race last year and it was well organized, accurate and well marked (these last two used to be things I took for granted in races but I have learned not to). The volunteers are top notch and there were some nice hilly bits on both the bike and run courses.

sheryl c.

sheryl c.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    pbpacers Forum Index -> Running All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3   

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Community Chest


Download our forum toolbar

Powered by phpBB
Hosted by FreeForums.org